I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? For more information, please see our Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Acheter. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft This is most certainly not what happened. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. (any of them?) Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.180.19 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created by SquisherDa (talk) at 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], The NTSB seems (from our article) to have believed tht the crew improperly chose to descend below decision height while 'not yet quite' having visual contact with the runway: "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach". Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". - paragraph added at 23:02 + amended at 23:09, 30 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.180.238 and at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, Engine power indications were virtually unchanged until about 9 seconds Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! (The paper is easy to source online). Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. The same sort of conditions facing Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh in Mexico City in '79: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2015/09/requiem-trijet-masterpiece-lockheed-l-1011-tristar/tristar-can-land-itself/, - section created at 21:25, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230, George B. Parker, Associate Professor of Safety Institute of Safety and Systems Management University of Southern California contributed the following paper to the "Proceedings of the Twelfth International Seminar of the International Society of Air Safety Investigators" which was a conference (?) On the other hand, it had developed a reputation among passengers and the media due to its string of high profile incidents. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. A part of the CVR is widely available online. Whether or not this reputation was warranted is up for debate. 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 The sad thing about this accident is that not one of Walsh's preparedness was unknown. The scenario adds up to a sequence of events that is just The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. One new winner* is announced every week! Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. Privacy Policy. The violent crashing is clearly heard. He was defending his company by blaming the pilots. This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. The DC-10 included no cable backup for the hydraulic-powered flight controls because it was considered nearly impossible for three hydraulic systems to fail during one flight. I remember flying into that airport a couple months later. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. For more information, please see our Walsh (?) 1 mois de voyages illimits. 1979 was the planes deadliest year. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Include these with the other problems he would Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests, RE: Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. A July 19th, 1989 United DC-10 crash was caused by an engine failure which damaged the hydraulic system and reduced control to a point that the pilots could utilize only engine power to prepare the aircraft for an emergency landing. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. No matter how cut throat, abusive, tyrannical or destructive corporations and finance would be to other aspects of flying the public had to be told the Government would never ever compromise on safety. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. general avtation will probably have to wait a long time. McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. With a fogbank unluckily placed they would not see 23R; and this is at night, so they likely wouldnt see the fogbank itself either. 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. Western Airlines Flight 2605 received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. It ought to be (if at all possible). - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, 20 minutes before the accident a 727 from Mexicana airlines landed normally on 23R using the "same procedure which the Western aircraft was instructed to follow". With the U.S. Air Force and American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. Follow. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? Its pilots loved the plane. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. and our Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. I haven't been able to find more info. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. Page contents not supported in other languages. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they $73. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. so they thought they were flying their cleared approach? The aircraft continued flying just clear of the ground near taxiway Alpha.". Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section heading inserted (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 00:53, 1 December 2019, "the flight touched down hard on the unpaved left shoulder of Runway 23L with more than 2 g of force, at 130 knots of speed." [3] (?) Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . 68 people died in that crash. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. There is no official report that we know of that gives any credence to this rumor. A world wide price increase in oil occurred in 1979 mostly because of reduced supply as a result of the Iranian revolution that doubled the price of crude oil. Most of the public is or was under the impression that safety would never be negatively impacted by sweeping "free market" legislation. You can also try to find a copy of David Grayson '"Terror in the Skies", published by W.H.Allen (London, England, 1989), which has a chapter dealing with that particular accident. and our SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. ATC: Can you see the approach light to the left? tion was a concern in all accident. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. Flying Magazine is not a credible source. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. He seems to remember that soon after this the planes nose rose and the engines were screaming. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. The nose gear did not contact Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. I denoised the CVR so you can hear the voices better. But then, with fog-banks etc giving them problems, visual contact was with 23L but not 23R; they reckoned they had slightly overdone the lateral separation and moved left to correct it, and so lined up with 23L . will not be used to prevent other accidents. Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. The aircraft speed decreased from 136 knots to 128 knots. Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. [3] - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. USER_MINI_PROFILE. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. The entire CVR is not easily accessable. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins as the cause of each accident. - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. It's pilots loved the plane. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident to occur on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. [9] . 1.5K. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. I'd like to reply to yours as well. Lombard wanted to fly. Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. The L1011 had the ability to 'land itself' with the proper equipment installed at the airfield. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. The CVR may in fact be missing information. The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all Flight 2605's "hydraulic systems" - as far as this contributor is aware - are not discussed in any crash analysis or publication.